Small garden with railroad ties & the dangers of creosote.
I’m going to jump right in here and talk about creosote and the dangers of railroad ties immediately because I know that’s going to be the center of the conversation because just about everyone has heard that railroad ties are toxic. But how toxic? And at what extent is what we’re hearing fear mongering and panic? And why, on earth, if there is any question at all, did I choose to use them around my vegetable garden? You all know me and know that I ere on the side of caution when it comes to my health.
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Upon extensive research this is what I know about creosote: The warnings and horrors when you read about it when you do a search on google is entirely based on HANDLING it, using wood that was JUST treated with it and being a worker in a plant that is TREATING lumber with it right now.
There is little said about wood that was treated a long time ago with creosote. Most people just think “Well, it could be toxic, why take the risk?” And that would normally be me too. However, the alternative to railroad ties for me right now was not at all affordable (cedar etc) and I really think that green treated lumber might be an even more toxic choice.
So, I found out how old the railroad ties I would be getting were (over a decade sitting outside in all the weather northern MN has to offer) and if you read through the panic and fear mongering out there the general consensus is thus:
“When they’re that old they pose such a negligible risk that it is basically eating a non organic apple before washing it.” Here is a Houzz forum that really helped me make the decision. Near the bottom of the forum someone posted this with links supporting their statement:
” … in 2008 the Environmental Protection Agency completed a reassessment … Testing determined that:
1. plant-based creosote has increasingly been used for this purpose since the early 1980’s.
2. that its primary source of potential health risk is to the workers in the wood-treatment plants working with fresh mix but that even that risk is minimized by safe handling,
3. that creosote can be harmful to plants if it comes into direct contact with them … but plants will not absorb the substance into their root tissue in a garden or elsewhere.
4. … and creosote will generally not migrate far enough through the soil to reach plants that are a short distance away
5. and … you’re unlikely to have more than short-term direct contact with creosote, and because plants don’t absorb creosote through their roots, you won’t be exposed to it by eating vegetables grown near treated timbers.”
(Note: The poster mentioned “plant-based creosote” because it had been mentioned earlier and argued over in that forum. The newer plant-based creosotes that they are using on the majority of railroad ties now are far LESS toxic then the creosote that USED to be used on railroad ties that has caused the majority of the belief of their toxicity.)
A couple more links FYI:
Gardening question re: will old railroad ties kill me or not?
Are Railroad Ties OK to Use to Construct Vegetable Gardens?
In the end my determination was this: The fact that I chose to use green treated timber on my deck and EVER walk barefoot on it I believe posed a much greater health risk to me then using VERY old railroad ties for my vegetable garden.
On top of that I know people who are totally healthy who have used railroad ties in their yards and for their gardens for not just years but for literally DECADES.
This was my PERSONAL decision and I hope all that I’ve stated up to this point makes it very clear why I made this decision, you MUST do your own research and make your own choices for your family’s health.
Ok, so one Friday night very early this spring my husband (now ex husband) drove into the yard with the railroad ties. He drove as close to my concrete slab as he could. (The slab was used for cleaning off equipment years ago and then just looked odd sitting there by itself in front of the barn – made sense to me that it would be my garen.)
We stacked the railroad ties two tall and filled it halfway up with something I always have a lot of: HORSE POOP.
After that I purchased 40 bags of organic top soil at the local fleet store ($1.79 a bag) to complete filling the whole garden. We then drove in 5″ torque screws to lash the railroad ties together as best we could.
These things were so heavy we really weren’t exactly worried about them moving but thought we should provide at least something to help them stay in place. At nearly $3 a piece I only purchased and used 12 of those torque screws and used my Dewalt Impact driver to get them in.
After that I headed for the barn and found four rough sawn 2x6s and one rough sawn 2×4 (thanks Grandpa!) to create my fence. Initially I had pouted quite a bit about putting a fence around the whole thing but after I got going on it my little garden began to look more and more like my Grandma’s garden and, of course, I loved that.
With the posts in place (attached with six 4″ deck screws) I started wrapping my fence around it and tacking it down with fence nails and a hammer. This is pretty much as straight forward as it gets and is not at all difficult to do.
I will say to “wrap” the fence around your posts so it curls around the garden the same way it was rolled up (that helps a lot in wrangling it around) and keep it as tight as you can as you go.
I let it overlap down across the top railroad tie about two inches and tacked it down all along that edge to help keep rabbits out too. (I would have appreciated another set of hands but it only took me a couple of hours and was not at all hard to do.)
With both fence rows up all I needed to do then was build a little gate. I did this by cutting two 2x4s at four feet and two 2x4s the width of the gate opening (27 inches) and then stretching my fence over them.
To help keep the fence in place on the gate I sandwiched it between the top/bottom and side 2x4s and then also tacked it down with a couple of fence nails on either side before trimming the fence to fit the gate.
With that done I used hinges to put it up and, BOOM, all done!
This little vegetable garden of mine is not going to be winning any beauty contests but it certainly wasn’t intended to. My wild life would have eaten my garden down to nothing so the fence will protect my hard work for years to come!
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I’m Tarah!
It’s been a hell of a ride since I started this blog and renovated and moved into this old farm house back in 2015. I got married, divorced, lost my doggo soul mate, spent two years as a single gal, remodeled everything, threw my back out countless times and was even found by an amazing guy in my own backyard! (The story behind Storyhardt Farm.)
Around here we’re totally fearless when it comes to bettering our home. We love to refinish old furniture, re-purpose old pieces, build it from scratch and totally renovate anything that needs it! If we can do it – so can you. We’ve got some serious plans for this old farm and, for first time ever, I have a real partner!
This is gonna be so much fun!
You can also find out more about the amazing Grandma behind this blog who moved in to this old farmhouse with my Grandpa nearly 70 years ago!
What a neat idea!! π
I would love for you to share this with my Facebook Group for recipes, crafts, tips, and tricks: https://www.facebook.com/groups/pluckyrecipescraftstips/
Thanks for joining Cooking and Crafting with J & J!
Thanks Jess!
So many decisions to make… your garden bed looks great! π
Thank you!
This is SOOOO cute! I just heard about creosote dangers. Love it when other people do my research haha.
Laurie
Hey Laurie, thanks for commenting and coming by! I plan on mulching (newspaper and old hay) over the railroad ties to keep the plants from laying on them so I really think we’re out of danger! π
Cheers to doing research and making informed decisions! I’m looking forward to seeing how your garden grows. Thank you for sharing with us this week at Celebrate Your Story, and I hope your week is going great.
Thank you Sandra!
My dad always used old railroad ties for everything—even our horse corral when I was a kid. I think your research is spot on! It is seriously a great idea to research everything, like you do, then make a good informed decision! π Looking forward to seeing progress on your garden if you share it!
Heidi
Thank you Heidi! I’m still going to probably cover them up with newspaper and hay (what I’m going to use for mulch) to keep the plants from laying on them but I think we’re very safe!
Great post! I’ve been wanting to start a garden, but it seems like such a huge undertaking. Thanks for breaking down how you put it together! Seems simple enough. My biggest hurdle would probably be keeping the plants alive. LOL
lol yup Cassie my biggest hurdle is definitely going to be keeping the plants alive! I just planted the garden yesterday actually and I went out there this morning thinking, “Oh goodness please be alive!” And they do look ok *crosses fingers* We’ll see how it goes!
I can’t wait to see it with plants in it!! Thanks for sharing at the DIY party!
Thanks so much!
Love the garden! Hubby said to watch closely and just plant a couple things to try first. His concern was so much fertilizer at the bottom may heat and destroy the plantings. Other than that, great idea and fun to do too
Thanks Ann!!
How do you plan to get in and out of your garden I had the same garden up against a cinder block fence I had a removable front I put my chicken wire in a frame and removed when I needed to get in and pick placed it back on to keep out the bunnies love your blog
Hi Barbara, thanks for coming by – I mad a little gate if you look close on the backside of the garden π
Wonderful tutorial, Tarah–easy for almost anyone to follow. Thanks for sharing your project with us at Vintage Charm π
Thanks Diana!
Great garden! Looks like you did your research. Good for you! Thanks for sharing at Dishing It & Digging It! π
Thanks Lori!
Love the garden! It is great you can grow your own veggies there. You are doing a wonderful job with the house
Oh thank you Pili!
I am just getting an interest in gardening and appreciate how you broke this down. I don’t think I will have anything like yours when I begin, but who knows how far I’ll go over the years!
Good luck on your gardening adventures Lowanda! There’s a part of me that wishes I had just built a few tall planters for my deck, but we’re gonna try this for now!
Just started reading your blog! Thanks for the tutorial – I’m showing this to my husband – the wire around the garden is what we need!
Thanks Julia for coming by!!
Sweet garden π I see a lot of your effort here to make this garden.
Thanks Ann!
I love your method of fencing in the garden! I think I might even be able to do this to my garden! Thanks so much for sharing this at The Creative Corner Link Up party on Mom Home Guide!
Thanks Lauren, have a great week!
Adorable project, My dad relandscaped our entire front yard with old soaked telephone poles back in the 80’s and It turned out fabulous! Reforming our front yard into an entirely new place with terraced bed mounds planted with full sized trees, bushes and huge coral rocks, we always received compliments on our landscape. Stairs lined with poles and boat rope. a perfect setting for a Florida home. Looked very dock inspired, like it belonged in the Florida Keys. We all grew up there with no long term ill health effects… so reusing old salvaged timber has my major stamp of approval!
Hey Brenda, that sounds like just a glorious yard to hang out in! Thanks so much for reading and commenting, good to hear I’m not the only one who grew up with salvaged wood landscaping!
We made our garden out of railroad ties that were free. We fenced it in as well. Been using it for 17 years. Found you at Bloggers Pit Stop
Wonderful! Thanks for coming by Candy!
Thank you that you did some study on creosote, that is a hard one. We used it on our house that was made from bush timber. That was about 25 years ago. We did not want the bugs to eat our house but we were concerned about using chemicals too.
Your garden looks ready to start production. thanks for sharing it on the Blogger’s Pit Stop, feel free to come and comment on other’s great posts too.
Kathleen
Blogger’s Pit Stop
Thanks so much for coming by and reading Kathleen! It can really sometimes be a hard decision to make when it comes to chemicals etc around our homes and gardens! Have a great weekend π
Hi, Tarah.
I when I read railroad ties I was thinking something completely different.
It seems you did your research and are very confident in your decision.
Your little garden looks like it will be a joy to tend.
Awesome Granpa too. ^_^
Thanks so much Sara!
Nice vegetable garden, lots of thought went into it,, and it is protected from creatures who nibble!!
It looks very professional indeed.
Excellent and thought out well!
Best –
Leslie –
Thank you so much! It will be better next year, lots of learning to do lol!
Great idea! I also appreciate how you took the time to address the concerns around treated wood.
Thank you Julie!
You are so right to research it Tarah and I think you made the right choice – and they look great for your vegetable bed
Thanks so much!
It’s a very nice vegetable garden, I am sure it will look even more stylish when the greens and vegetables will start growing!
I have a question though: why do you think that green treated wood is more hazardous than the ties? Thank you.
Hi Kate, the only reason I felt that green treat was more toxic was simply because it hadn’t had the time outside to “air out” like the ties had. Thanks for coming by!
You did an amazing job on building your garden! This is something that my husband would LOVE to do, and wants to do. I had never heard that railroad ties are toxic. That is new information to me.
Thanks Natalie!
I love how detailed you are! Now I’m thinking of having my own vegetable garden too. Thank you for sharing this!
Hi Mandy, I loved having my little garden last year, it wasn’t too big so I felt like I basically kept control of it lol
I like that you talk about how railroad ties are an affordable alternative to cedar and other options. I also like that you explain how the wood is older and was treated long ago, making them less dangerous than ones that have been treated more recently. When choosing railroad supplies for your landscape, you’d probably want to research the different options and suppliers by looking online to find ones that can provide you with what you need.
Thanks for coming by Tiffany, have a great weekend!
Wow! You took on a lot, but the results are incredible!
But I have to say that I adore the farm setting! So idyllic! It reminds me of my great granparents’ farm in Iowa.
Thank you so much Shelly!
Thanks for sharing your research on old railroad ties. I’ve been poring over tons of info that go both ways on the subject. The ties in my yard were there, and already old, when I moved in 15 years ago. Really, these ties could be decades old! I considered getting rid of them, but I have so many, it would be a shame not to put them to good use in a garden.
Best Regards,
Keith
Hi Keith yeah this was a tough one for me, honestly. I’ve since raised this bed up so the railroad ties are nearly three feet below my garden now. Regardless though, once you go down that rabbit hole everything is toxic and bad it seems lol I really feel like your ties are totally safe after so many years.
Thanks so much for posting all your research re: using railroad ties in the garden. I made a raised garden with rr ties over 7 years ago and am currently building a retaining wall with them. With the current lumber shortage, Iβve been searching for them and came across some very disturbing articles about using them, even sites claiming that theyβre illegal for residential areas in some states. Completely agree with you; the actual dangers to our health are minimal unless we are actually handling them new. No worries there- the big box stores seem to sell them all used…and for a ridiculous price!!
Hi Jason, yeah a little research does make railroad ties sounds like an incredibly bad idea but once you start looking at those that are available out there it becomes pretty obvious that all of the “fear” out there is based on BRAND NEW ties. I’m not even sure where to buy a brand new rail road tie lol the ones we found all had pretty obviously been outside for a years upon years so, I think they’re totally safe. Yeah, building prices right now are absolutely ridiculous!!
Thank you. I feel a deeper peace of mind. It seems as though our research led us to the same place. There are hundreds of years of documenting the effects of creosote (natural), but we really don’t know how made-made treated wood chemicals affect nature.
* NOTE * Do NOT use railroad ties in a veggie garden if they are seeping creosote. Weather them first.
Raised gardens are a status symbol in US gardening, even if they aren’t needed. I couldn’t afford raised cedar beds either. They are beautiful, filled with loamy potting soil, a few steps from the back door…but SW Ohio climate doesn’t require that.
My railroad ties serve the same purpose as yours… holding back soil. I didn’t start on a concrete pad, but It took me 7 years of organic composting to reach the top of my only tier. I’m ready for tier #2! Yay!